Ian Callaghan - The Marathon man

Image by Arnie - Copyright LFChistory.net

Ian Callaghan is literally synonymous with Liverpool's history. He was a part of the successful teams of the 60's and the 70's and played for both Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley. His greatest claim to fame as it were is of course being the player that has played most games for Liverpool in the club's glorious history, an incredible total of 857 games.

So did Mr. Liverpool himself, Ian Callaghan, start out as a Red?

I wasn't anything really. It wasn't until I went to watch Liverpool play that I became a Red. Some weeks later I went to Goodison. Everton was the in first division, a bigger and a better ground, but it wasn't the same atmosphere and I became a Red. My dad was a blue. He didn't usually go to the games, but deep down he was an Evertonian.

I went to very few games at the time because I used to play twice at a Saturday, for my school in the morning and played for the boy's club in the afternoon. I stood on the Kop. When I started to go I was about 15 and playing for Liverpool. Before I left school I went into the Boy's pen which used to be in the Kop and which is an experience.

They didn't take lads on then until they were 15 and leaving school. I just signed as an amateur. I used to train two nights a week, on a Tuesday night and a Wednesday night at the training ground, Melwood. Then I signed professional, gave my job up and went full-time.

Was your dad happy with you being a Red?

He was when I played for the first team. He changed his colours when I started to play for Liverpool.

You quite embody the history of Liverpool from the start of the Shankly era.

That's right. I signed professional in 1960 and Bill Shankly had just come in '59 and he watched me play with the junior teams and then put me in the reserves. Shanks came down to where I lived when he wanted me to sign professional and met me mum and dad. I was from a background which is very ordinary. I think he took it upon himself to look after me. Shanks, if he walked out of his office and you were messing around in the corridors you would stop straight away. I loved the man and never had a cross word with him. I never went in for a rise.

You made one of the most memorable debuts in Liverpool's history on 16th of April 1960.

Everything I did was right. When I hit a bad ball it went to a Liverpool shirt. They actually clapped me off the field, the referee and the players. It was quite an unbelievable occasion. I went on the bus when I made by debut. It wasn't many cars in them days. People didn't have cars. I thought I was giving me plenty of time but when I got to the bus-stop, they were queuing at the bus-stop to go the match. They all knew who I was as it was in my neighbourhood. Several of them said: 'Let Cally get on the bus, he's playing.' I went at the front of the bus and got on the bus. I got off at the ground, played and got the bus home.

The supporters were talking about the game on the bus going home. I had made such a fantastic debut and they give me a pat on the back.

Did they clap you off the bus as well?

yes, hahaha!

The People were one of many newspapers who praised the "Baby face Ian" for his debut

Callaghan played four games at the end of the 1959-60 season and then hardly had a look in the following season, playing only 5 games. Shankly signed Kevin Lewis from Sheffield United who scored 22 goals in 36 games in the 1960-61 season, which kept Callaghan out of the Liverpool side. A brilliant goal-rate by any means by Lewis, so was there much chance for Callaghan having a look in the 1961-62 season, when Liverpool got promoted from the 2nd division?

Kevin Lewis played about half of the season and then I played the second half of the season. I got a medal for the win in the second division. You had to play twenty something games before you got a medal. That season I was in the reserve team as well.

Lewis scored 10 goals in 21 games in the 1961-1962 promotion season and then 12 in 26 games when Liverpool was in the 1st. He had scored 44 goals in 82 games, not bad by any means?

I don't know what happened, but I know he then went to South Africa. Very curious as he was a terrific goalscorer. I got into the team. I was never a goalscorer. Shanks must have thought I had something and I got into the team when we won the second division. I was a fixture then.

Describe yourself as a player..

At school I was what they used to call a wing-half. You call them midfielders these days. When I signed for Liverpool I was so small that they decided to put me on the right wing. I just took to it really, because I was quite quick. I used to take the full-back on and get to the byline. That was my strength. 

It's quite symbolic that when Callaghan made his debut he was mentioned in the same breath as Billy Liddell, who had then made most appearances for Liverpool and effectively who Callaghan replaced in the side: "The 18-year-old right winger, making his debut for Liverpool, had put up a fantastic show that even old favourite Billy Liddell couldn't have bettered." (The People).

Billy Liddell was asked in 1961 if there was any player who could replace him in the Liverpool team. Billy said: "There is always someone to follow on. They have one at Anfield already, a youngster named Ian Callaghan. I played with him twice, watched his progress and I believe he'll be a credit to his club, the game and to his country."

Billy was my idol when I was at school and it was fantastic to take over from him. I had so much respect for him. Great man - It's very hard to compare decades, but in the 50s, they used to call them Liddellpool. He was a god in Liverpool. I took over from him on the wing and he finished playing not long after that.

Billy Liddell was incredible. When I went to my first professional football match it was Liverpool. When Billy got the ball the anticipation from the crowd was just huge. What is he going to do with it? Is he going to shoot from 30 yards or take it past people. He was wonderful. Billy played with a heavy ball on the heavy pitches. The way he used to kick the ball, wow! He was so strong!

Later I worked for the Littlewoods Pools Company Spot the ball and Billy was on the panel. Billy was the chairman and I actually took over as chairman from Billy. I got to know him and he was a really quiet and a really nice man. Terrific. He is one of those of the people who will always be remembered in Liverpool like Shankly and Paisley.

You broke Billy Liddell's appearance record for Liverpool when you made your 535th appearance on 15th of August 1972.

It's been fantastic for me, I think the nearest is 600 odd games. 857 is a lot of games and takes a lot of beating. Jamie [Carragher] has 500, but it will take a lot of games. I'm very proud of that.

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 "Cally deserves every accolade he'll get tomorrow. He has been the model professional, never in trouble on or off the field and never giving less than 100 per cent." - Billy Liddell

So what was the secret behind your longevity at Liverpool? Did you always go early to bed?

Oh, God. I used to love to have a drink with the boys after the match. There were rules that you didn't drink after Wednesday, which I didn't. If you were playing in midweek somewhere they did allow you to go out and have a beer. You had to be back by 12 o'clock at the hotel. There would be a curfew because you were flying back the next day and then you would be playing again on the Saturday.

You were the first Liverpool player to be chosen Footballer of the year in 1974

Yes, the Football writers' player of the year. That was just before the cup final with Newcastle. We were in London for the final. "The Footballer of the year" was on a Thursday night and Shanks took me and we missed the start of the dinner. I was nervous because I had to give a speech which I had never done before. You looked at the audience. All the past winners were at the top table. Stanley Matthews and all those people. I had written something down, but said 'I can't do this'. I always remember what Shanks said to me. He said: 'You have won this award because you deserve it. Just go and enjoy it.' It was an unbelievable night and I was the first Liverpool player to win it. Just fantastic.

"Ian Callaghan is everything good that a man can be. No praise is too high for him. Words cannot do justice to the amount he has contributed to the game. Ian Callaghan will go down as one of the game's truly great players." - Bill Shankly

You were only booked once in your Liverpool career in your penultimate game for Liverpool in March 1978. You must have deserved more bookings and once or twice done something untoward?

Tommy Smith said that I should have been booked more than him. It was just the one booking. It was against Nottingham Forest in the League Cup. We played at Wembley on the Saturday and we drew and the replay was at Old Trafford. The referee was Pat Partridge. He had given a penalty. Phil Thompson tackled a guy and it was a yard outside the box. It went a bit mad after that and people were tackling. The ball bounced between this Scouser, called Peter Withe, and myself and I went in and he went in. I caught him in the chest and he took my name. The club tried to get it taken away, but they didn't. I would like to meet that Pat Partridge. He is still alive and well. I want just to meet him one of these days and you know.. yeah.. [gestures in a threatening manner.]

It was unbelievable in 1974 when Shanks decided to resign that Bob reluctantly took over. The nice thing was that Bob took over. You always knew Bob as "Bob" because he was the second in command. You always used to call Shankly "Boss". It was very difficult to call Bob boss at first. He was the most unassuming man you could ever wish to meet. He never changed his ways when he became the most successful boss in the game. He was still the same guy. They were two phenomenal men. I just feel I've been privileged in my career to play under the two of them.

I believe really, that we needed Shanks to come in 1959. Somebody who was very strong and outgoing to turn the club around because we weren't going anywhere until Shanks arrived. The foundations were laid by Shanks and Bob carried on. I don't know whether Bob could have started that, it needed Shanks to do that.

Cally with his lifelong friends: Gerry Byrne and Jimmy Melia - Image by Arnie - Copyright LFChistory.net

LFChistory.net talked to Liverpool legend, Gerry Byrne, about his former room-mate at Liverpool, Ian Callaghan. 

Ian Callaghan holds the record for appearances and Chris Lawler the full-back on his side holds the record for the number of goals scored at full-back. Cally was up and down and was tireless. He never stopped, defend or attack and Chris used to sneak up. (LFChistory.net will next week publish an exclusive interview with Gerry Byrne).

Callaghan was the only player who played in Liverpool's first European game in Reykjavik in 1964, who won the European Cup in 1977.

In those days you didn't charter planes, so we got a flight from Manchester to Glasgow. Reykjavík is a beautiful place. I remember the hotel we stayed at. You couldn't get an awful lot of beer there in '64. Alcohol was difficult to come by, but I think we found some place.

In '77 I was a sub in the final the Saturday before when we played Manchester United in the FA Cup. I was sub for that because I was coming for the end. I went on in the last 20 minutes of the game and we went into training on Monday and Bob came up to me, and this is typical of Bob, 'Do you want to play on Wednesday?' 'Of course I want to play, yeah.' He said: 'Well, you're playing.' Then he later told Tommy Smith that he made a massive mistake in not playing me in the FA Cup final. The first time you win something you make history for the club. If somebody asked me which was my greatest moment for Liverpool it would be winning the cup in '65 and the European Cup in '77. 

The best pair of wingers who have ever played for Liverpool were undoubtedly Peter Thompson and Ian Callaghan. Thompson is full of praise for his former teammate and credits Shankly with motivating him to greater heights:

The boss was a great influence. He made me believe I was the greatest winger in Europe, and he made Ian Callaghan believe he was better than I was! Cally and myself complemented each other perfectly. He was direct whereas I would tend to dwell on the ball a lot more and try to beat people. Some games one of us would be struggling, the defender facing Cally may have been faster than him or the right back could handle a dribbler like myself, so we’d simply switch flanks and it’d work.”

What comes to your mind when I mention the following...

- Matchday food

We used to eat a steak before a match and now they reckon it's the worst thing you can eat as it's hard to digest. It wasn't until later we moved to beans on toast or scrambled eggs.

- The Sweat box.

It was just a device by mister Shankly. It was just like boards and you had to run. They timed you. You were only in there for one minute or two minutes. You had to run as quick as you can. All the lads were along the touchline and Shanks and Bob, Reuben Bennett and Ronnie Moran were shouting all the time - you had to hit ball against the board, control it and run to the other boards. It was really hard work. The sweat box became quite famous like the Bootroom. You would come out and your legs would be like jelly.

- The 1966 World Cup

In '66 I played one game in the world cup against France. I made my debut in Finland which was a warm-up to the World Cup. He [Sir Alf Ramsey] played John Kinnelly and Terry Payne in the world cup as wingers. Then he decided when it got to the knock-out stages that he wasn't going to play with wingers. It was sad for us, the wingers, but having said that, he went on to win the World Cup so something he got right. Now I've got a world cup winners' medal along with the other 11 in the '66 squad. Even now at my age something is happening now.

- Most difficult opponent

The most difficult left-back I've ever played against was Ray Wilson who played in the '66 World Cup and played for Everton. He was a tough player.

- Moving into midfield

In 1970 I had a cartilage out and I couldn't get back into the team as they were playing so well. There was a chap playing central midfield called John McLaughlin. He got injured and then Shanks decided to put me into central midfield. I then had another career. I went to play for England when I was 35 in central midfield. This the biggest gap ever and never probably be ever beaten. Some 11 years later getting called up to play for his country.

- Best ever game at Anfield

European Cup semi-final vs. Inter Milan in 1965. One thing I feel sad about is that Bill Shankly never won the European Cup because he won everything else. That year we had a fantastic chance. I scored from a free-kick which we had been trying for I don't know how long. We had practiced it at Melwood and it never came up, but that particular night it came off. I didn't score many, but it was a good goal.

We were 3-1 up after Anfield and we were robbed. I had never played in an atmosphere until then like it was in the San Siro stadium. It was just unbelievable. I don't think we would have got out of the stadium if we had beat them. The referee was, the word would be, bent. Inter were regarded then as the best club team in the world as they had beaten Independiente earlier in the Intercontinental cup. They had fantastic players like Luiz Suarez and Facchetti. He was the captain of Italy and was a terrific player.

Guess three times who was the referee in the Independiente game?

The same referee... (laughs) There you go. Enough said.

Ian with his partner in life, Maggie - Copyright LFChistory.net

You are from Toxteth which has a reputation of being a very difficult neighbourhood in Liverpool.

It was a difficult neighbourhood later on. The Toxteth riots, everyone knows about that. Toxteth was, I wouldn't say a hard neighbourhood, but it got a reputation really. The people where I lived were the salt of the earth. We would let the doors open. But it was the riots that took Toxteth to the forefront. I had a fabulous childhood, never any problems. People groan when you talk about Toxteth now.

Robbie Fowler is also from Toxteth...

He lived right by me, Robbie. He is a nice guy. He is really down to earth. He has done well for himself. It's said that he's the richest player in the north-west. Jimmy Greaves was a phenomenal player. Fowler has always reminded me of Jimmy Greaves. Robbie is the same. He used to pick his spot.

The beginning of the end

I went to America straight after the European cup final at Wembley. I was a sub for that game when Dalglish scored against Bruges. I flew out the next day to sign for Fort Lauderdale on loan from Liverpool. Bob allowed me to go. I enjoyed that. Gordon Banks was in goal for us. I roomed with George Best for five months. That was an experience! What a player! Then I came back, but in the meantime Tosh had been in contact to see if I would sign for Swansea. Smithy had signed for Swansea. Bob had signed Graeme Souness earlier, who was a great player. Bob said: 'I'll give you a rise, but I want you to play in the reserve team to help the young players come along.' I wanted to play more and wasn't ready for reserve team football so I signed for Swansea. That was good. We trained at Liverpool all week and then went down at weekends to play for Swansea. I was like a Liverpool player during the week, but then I played for Swansea at weekends. Bob was fantastic with Smithy and me.

Did you play also in Norway for a team called Sandefjord?

No, I didn't. People have said this, I went over and everything else, but I couldn't get a work permit. I played for Cork City three times and then went to Crewe after that. Alan A'Court was the assistant manager at Crewe. He was a great friend of mine. He took me under his wing when I first signed for Liverpool and was very good to me. I had decided to call it a day, but Alan turned up and asked me if I would come to Crewe just for a month to play in midfield, settle the youngsters down. I said: 'No, no, I've finished.' He was very persistent. I ended up going for a month and was five months there. Then I did my achilles tendon and I called it a day.

Bill Shankly could certainly appreciate Callaghan's contribution to Liverpool's cause over the years: "He is a model professional, and a model human being. If there were 11 Callaghans at Anfield there would never be any need to put up a team sheet. He typifies everything that is good in football, and he has never changed. You could stake your life on Ian."

Shanks thought of me as a model professional. I was fit as I used to love training, but Shanks often used to come up to me in training and sort of say: 'You don't train today. You just go through the motions. Just do what you've got to do.' I never had a cross word with him.

Ian's partner, Maggie, was sitting beside him when LFChistory.net interviewed him.

Maggie: It is not possible to have a cross word with Ian. I've never had an arguement with Ian. He's not too bothered about a lot of things. [Callaghan shrugs his shoulders]. He is not arguementative. But he quietly gets his own way. You are not in charge of Ian, he's in charge of himself.

Maggie: The crowd always says to him: 'Haven't you got your boots with you, Ian?'

Talking about the game now, it's obviously changed quite a bit since your playing days

I miss the day-to-day routine. I miss the the lads, going to the ground, training, the banter with the boys. Foreigners to us were Scottish, Welsh and Irish. We had great difficulty in understanding, especially the Scotsmen. You had to get used to to the way they spoke. They are from different cultures now. French, Spanish, a different way of life.

Which current players do you rate the most?

In any Liverpool era Stevie G would be the first name on the teamsheet. I think he is a fantastic player. He is one of the best players in the world. Jamie is also a fantastic player. Funnily enough the two Liverpool lads have been the backbone of the Liverpool side for many years. Torres is an incredible player. World class!

You can't allow losing touch with reality to happen. Take Stevie and Jamie. They just lead as normal life as they can. Although they earn fantastic amounts of money, but you still have to live your life. You want to come down to Liverpool to shop and what have you. It's more difficult now as people want their autographs and a photograph with them. I saw a photograph of Stevie, shopping in Liverpool with his wife. It was in the paper. Come on, he was just out shopping with the wife.

Maggie: I feel sorry for them.

Ian: I don't feel sorry for them, not with the money he's earning...[laughs]

Maggie: As a joke thing we say, we want to put Ian on the subs bench for a month at their wages.

Ian: That would be nice, wouldn't it? As long as they don't call me on.

Interview by Arnie ([email protected]) - Copyright - LFChistory.net